Re: [Ros-kinect] Power and voltage limits

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Re: [Ros-kinect] Power and voltage limits

rusu
Administrator
Patrick,

Great finds!

I wonder what's the easiest way for us to get rid of the additional power supply, and have it hooked to 1-2 USB ports
only. We might need to get rid of the motor in the process. Has anyone tried that yet?


Cheers,
Radu.


On 11/19/2010 03:02 PM, Patrick Bouffard wrote:

> Hi, I was looking for this info and couldn't find it anywhere on the
> web, so after taking some measurements myself here is what I found
> out:
>
> The power cable consists of two small gauge (22 AWG I think) wires,
> one brown and one black, plus a couple of thin rubbery filaments
> presumably for strain relief. The brown wire is +12V (I measured it at
> 12.25) and the white is ground.
>
> On the wall-wart label the output is listed as 12 VDC, 1.08 A, and I
> have seen 12 W quoted for power. But what is the actual power
> requirement? I used a switching power supply to provide 12.25 V and
> used a Watt's-Up inline meter to check. Turns out while operating
> (this is using the ROS kinect driver, though I doubt it would make a
> difference with a different one) it draws around 0.32-0.35 A, or just
> under 4 W. The readings didn't change appreciably when I actuated the
> tilt motor for several seconds.
>
> Also of interest to me was what is the lower limit of voltage it can
> operate at. I found this to be approx. 8.05 V. Below that the driver
> would lose connection. At the other end, I tested up to 12.6 V
> successfully. It may be able to go higher but that's as high as I
> would need it to handle for my application and I don't want to risk
> damage.
>
> Hope this info is useful and I'm interested if anyone else has done
> similar tests and how the results compare.
>
> Cheers,
> Pat
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Re: [Ros-kinect] Power and voltage limits

Kurt Konolige
USB power won't work, since that's 5V, and the minimum needed by the
Kinect is 8V.  --kk

On Fri, Nov 19, 2010 at 4:22 PM, Radu Bogdan Rusu <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Patrick,
>
> Great finds!
>
> I wonder what's the easiest way for us to get rid of the additional power supply, and have it hooked to 1-2 USB ports
> only. We might need to get rid of the motor in the process. Has anyone tried that yet?
>
>
> Cheers,
> Radu.
>
>
> On 11/19/2010 03:02 PM, Patrick Bouffard wrote:
>> Hi, I was looking for this info and couldn't find it anywhere on the
>> web, so after taking some measurements myself here is what I found
>> out:
>>
>> The power cable consists of two small gauge (22 AWG I think) wires,
>> one brown and one black, plus a couple of thin rubbery filaments
>> presumably for strain relief. The brown wire is +12V (I measured it at
>> 12.25) and the white is ground.
>>
>> On the wall-wart label the output is listed as 12 VDC, 1.08 A, and I
>> have seen 12 W quoted for power. But what is the actual power
>> requirement? I used a switching power supply to provide 12.25 V and
>> used a Watt's-Up inline meter to check. Turns out while operating
>> (this is using the ROS kinect driver, though I doubt it would make a
>> difference with a different one) it draws around 0.32-0.35 A, or just
>> under 4 W. The readings didn't change appreciably when I actuated the
>> tilt motor for several seconds.
>>
>> Also of interest to me was what is the lower limit of voltage it can
>> operate at. I found this to be approx. 8.05 V. Below that the driver
>> would lose connection. At the other end, I tested up to 12.6 V
>> successfully. It may be able to go higher but that's as high as I
>> would need it to handle for my application and I don't want to risk
>> damage.
>>
>> Hope this info is useful and I'm interested if anyone else has done
>> similar tests and how the results compare.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Pat
> _______________________________________________
> Ros-kinect mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://code.ros.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-kinect
>
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Re: [Ros-kinect] Power and voltage limits

Curt Meyers
There is also a fan that could draw another watt it two if it ever turns on.

Curt

On Nov 19, 2010, at 5:30 PM, Kurt Konolige <[hidden email]> wrote:

> USB power won't work, since that's 5V, and the minimum needed by the
> Kinect is 8V.  --kk
>
> On Fri, Nov 19, 2010 at 4:22 PM, Radu Bogdan Rusu <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Patrick,
>>
>> Great finds!
>>
>> I wonder what's the easiest way for us to get rid of the additional power supply, and have it hooked to 1-2 USB ports
>> only. We might need to get rid of the motor in the process. Has anyone tried that yet?
>>
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Radu.
>>
>>
>> On 11/19/2010 03:02 PM, Patrick Bouffard wrote:
>>> Hi, I was looking for this info and couldn't find it anywhere on the
>>> web, so after taking some measurements myself here is what I found
>>> out:
>>>
>>> The power cable consists of two small gauge (22 AWG I think) wires,
>>> one brown and one black, plus a couple of thin rubbery filaments
>>> presumably for strain relief. The brown wire is +12V (I measured it at
>>> 12.25) and the white is ground.
>>>
>>> On the wall-wart label the output is listed as 12 VDC, 1.08 A, and I
>>> have seen 12 W quoted for power. But what is the actual power
>>> requirement? I used a switching power supply to provide 12.25 V and
>>> used a Watt's-Up inline meter to check. Turns out while operating
>>> (this is using the ROS kinect driver, though I doubt it would make a
>>> difference with a different one) it draws around 0.32-0.35 A, or just
>>> under 4 W. The readings didn't change appreciably when I actuated the
>>> tilt motor for several seconds.
>>>
>>> Also of interest to me was what is the lower limit of voltage it can
>>> operate at. I found this to be approx. 8.05 V. Below that the driver
>>> would lose connection. At the other end, I tested up to 12.6 V
>>> successfully. It may be able to go higher but that's as high as I
>>> would need it to handle for my application and I don't want to risk
>>> damage.
>>>
>>> Hope this info is useful and I'm interested if anyone else has done
>>> similar tests and how the results compare.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Pat
>> _______________________________________________
>> Ros-kinect mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://code.ros.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-kinect
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Ros-kinect mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://code.ros.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-kinect
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Re: [Ros-kinect] Power and voltage limits

Curt Meyers
In reply to this post by Kurt Konolige
There is also a fan that could draw another watt it two if it ever turns on.

Curt

On Nov 19, 2010, at 5:30 PM, Kurt Konolige <[hidden email]> wrote:

USB power won't work, since that's 5V, and the minimum needed by the
Kinect is 8V.  --kk

On Fri, Nov 19, 2010 at 4:22 PM, Radu Bogdan Rusu <[hidden email]> wrote:
Patrick,

Great finds!

I wonder what's the easiest way for us to get rid of the additional power supply, and have it hooked to 1-2 USB ports
only. We might need to get rid of the motor in the process. Has anyone tried that yet?


Cheers,
Radu.


On 11/19/2010 03:02 PM, Patrick Bouffard wrote:
Hi, I was looking for this info and couldn't find it anywhere on the
web, so after taking some measurements myself here is what I found
out:

The power cable consists of two small gauge (22 AWG I think) wires,
one brown and one black, plus a couple of thin rubbery filaments
presumably for strain relief. The brown wire is +12V (I measured it at
12.25) and the white is ground.

On the wall-wart label the output is listed as 12 VDC, 1.08 A, and I
have seen 12 W quoted for power. But what is the actual power
requirement? I used a switching power supply to provide 12.25 V and
used a Watt's-Up inline meter to check. Turns out while operating
(this is using the ROS kinect driver, though I doubt it would make a
difference with a different one) it draws around 0.32-0.35 A, or just
under 4 W. The readings didn't change appreciably when I actuated the
tilt motor for several seconds.

Also of interest to me was what is the lower limit of voltage it can
operate at. I found this to be approx. 8.05 V. Below that the driver
would lose connection. At the other end, I tested up to 12.6 V
successfully. It may be able to go higher but that's as high as I
would need it to handle for my application and I don't want to risk
damage.

Hope this info is useful and I'm interested if anyone else has done
similar tests and how the results compare.

Cheers,
Pat
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Re: [Ros-kinect] Power and voltage limits

Bill Morris
In reply to this post by Kurt Konolige
I wonder what actually needs higher then 5Vs?

The only things I can think of are
IR Laser
Motor
Peltier junction for cooling the IR imager
  http://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Microsoft-Kinect-Teardown/4066/3#s19099


On Fri, 2010-11-19 at 17:30 -0800, Kurt Konolige wrote:

> USB power won't work, since that's 5V, and the minimum needed by the
> Kinect is 8V.  --kk
>
> On Fri, Nov 19, 2010 at 4:22 PM, Radu Bogdan Rusu <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > Patrick,
> >
> > Great finds!
> >
> > I wonder what's the easiest way for us to get rid of the additional power supply, and have it hooked to 1-2 USB ports
> > only. We might need to get rid of the motor in the process. Has anyone tried that yet?
> >
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Radu.
> >
> >
> > On 11/19/2010 03:02 PM, Patrick Bouffard wrote:
> >> Hi, I was looking for this info and couldn't find it anywhere on the
> >> web, so after taking some measurements myself here is what I found
> >> out:
> >>
> >> The power cable consists of two small gauge (22 AWG I think) wires,
> >> one brown and one black, plus a couple of thin rubbery filaments
> >> presumably for strain relief. The brown wire is +12V (I measured it at
> >> 12.25) and the white is ground.
> >>
> >> On the wall-wart label the output is listed as 12 VDC, 1.08 A, and I
> >> have seen 12 W quoted for power. But what is the actual power
> >> requirement? I used a switching power supply to provide 12.25 V and
> >> used a Watt's-Up inline meter to check. Turns out while operating
> >> (this is using the ROS kinect driver, though I doubt it would make a
> >> difference with a different one) it draws around 0.32-0.35 A, or just
> >> under 4 W. The readings didn't change appreciably when I actuated the
> >> tilt motor for several seconds.
> >>
> >> Also of interest to me was what is the lower limit of voltage it can
> >> operate at. I found this to be approx. 8.05 V. Below that the driver
> >> would lose connection. At the other end, I tested up to 12.6 V
> >> successfully. It may be able to go higher but that's as high as I
> >> would need it to handle for my application and I don't want to risk
> >> damage.
> >>
> >> Hope this info is useful and I'm interested if anyone else has done
> >> similar tests and how the results compare.
> >>
> >> Cheers,
> >> Pat
> > _______________________________________________
> > Ros-kinect mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > https://code.ros.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-kinect
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Ros-kinect mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://code.ros.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-kinect


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Re: [Ros-kinect] Power and voltage limits

Patrick Bouffard
In reply to this post by Curt Meyers
Good point, although the label on the fan says it's 5V, 0.1 A -- so
probably not quite that much.

Pat

On Fri, Nov 19, 2010 at 6:02 PM, Curt Meyers <[hidden email]> wrote:

> There is also a fan that could draw another watt it two if it ever turns on.
>
> Curt
> On Nov 19, 2010, at 5:30 PM, Kurt Konolige <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> USB power won't work, since that's 5V, and the minimum needed by the
> Kinect is 8V.  --kk
>
> On Fri, Nov 19, 2010 at 4:22 PM, Radu Bogdan Rusu <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> Patrick,
>
> Great finds!
>
> I wonder what's the easiest way for us to get rid of the additional power
> supply, and have it hooked to 1-2 USB ports
>
> only. We might need to get rid of the motor in the process. Has anyone tried
> that yet?
>
>
> Cheers,
>
> Radu.
>
>
> On 11/19/2010 03:02 PM, Patrick Bouffard wrote:
>
> Hi, I was looking for this info and couldn't find it anywhere on the
>
> web, so after taking some measurements myself here is what I found
>
> out:
>
> The power cable consists of two small gauge (22 AWG I think) wires,
>
> one brown and one black, plus a couple of thin rubbery filaments
>
> presumably for strain relief. The brown wire is +12V (I measured it at
>
> 12.25) and the white is ground.
>
> On the wall-wart label the output is listed as 12 VDC, 1.08 A, and I
>
> have seen 12 W quoted for power. But what is the actual power
>
> requirement? I used a switching power supply to provide 12.25 V and
>
> used a Watt's-Up inline meter to check. Turns out while operating
>
> (this is using the ROS kinect driver, though I doubt it would make a
>
> difference with a different one) it draws around 0.32-0.35 A, or just
>
> under 4 W. The readings didn't change appreciably when I actuated the
>
> tilt motor for several seconds.
>
> Also of interest to me was what is the lower limit of voltage it can
>
> operate at. I found this to be approx. 8.05 V. Below that the driver
>
> would lose connection. At the other end, I tested up to 12.6 V
>
> successfully. It may be able to go higher but that's as high as I
>
> would need it to handle for my application and I don't want to risk
>
> damage.
>
> Hope this info is useful and I'm interested if anyone else has done
>
> similar tests and how the results compare.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Pat
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Ros-kinect mailing list
>
> [hidden email]
>
> https://code.ros.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-kinect
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ros-kinect mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://code.ros.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-kinect
>
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Re: [Ros-kinect] Power and voltage limits

rusu
Administrator
I mean if the reference PrimeSense sensor (http://www.primesense.com/files/FMF_2.PDF) uses 1 USB connection, I'm sure we
can strip down the unnecessary stuff on the Kinect (motor, usb hub, etc) and make it use 1 USB connection only too, no?

Cheers,
Radu.


On 11/19/2010 08:28 PM, Patrick Bouffard wrote:

> Good point, although the label on the fan says it's 5V, 0.1 A -- so
> probably not quite that much.
>
> Pat
>
> On Fri, Nov 19, 2010 at 6:02 PM, Curt Meyers<[hidden email]>  wrote:
>> There is also a fan that could draw another watt it two if it ever turns on.
>>
>> Curt
>> On Nov 19, 2010, at 5:30 PM, Kurt Konolige<[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>>
>> USB power won't work, since that's 5V, and the minimum needed by the
>> Kinect is 8V.  --kk
>>
>> On Fri, Nov 19, 2010 at 4:22 PM, Radu Bogdan Rusu<[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Patrick,
>>
>> Great finds!
>>
>> I wonder what's the easiest way for us to get rid of the additional power
>> supply, and have it hooked to 1-2 USB ports
>>
>> only. We might need to get rid of the motor in the process. Has anyone tried
>> that yet?
>>
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Radu.
>>
>>
>> On 11/19/2010 03:02 PM, Patrick Bouffard wrote:
>>
>> Hi, I was looking for this info and couldn't find it anywhere on the
>>
>> web, so after taking some measurements myself here is what I found
>>
>> out:
>>
>> The power cable consists of two small gauge (22 AWG I think) wires,
>>
>> one brown and one black, plus a couple of thin rubbery filaments
>>
>> presumably for strain relief. The brown wire is +12V (I measured it at
>>
>> 12.25) and the white is ground.
>>
>> On the wall-wart label the output is listed as 12 VDC, 1.08 A, and I
>>
>> have seen 12 W quoted for power. But what is the actual power
>>
>> requirement? I used a switching power supply to provide 12.25 V and
>>
>> used a Watt's-Up inline meter to check. Turns out while operating
>>
>> (this is using the ROS kinect driver, though I doubt it would make a
>>
>> difference with a different one) it draws around 0.32-0.35 A, or just
>>
>> under 4 W. The readings didn't change appreciably when I actuated the
>>
>> tilt motor for several seconds.
>>
>> Also of interest to me was what is the lower limit of voltage it can
>>
>> operate at. I found this to be approx. 8.05 V. Below that the driver
>>
>> would lose connection. At the other end, I tested up to 12.6 V
>>
>> successfully. It may be able to go higher but that's as high as I
>>
>> would need it to handle for my application and I don't want to risk
>>
>> damage.
>>
>> Hope this info is useful and I'm interested if anyone else has done
>>
>> similar tests and how the results compare.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Pat
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> Ros-kinect mailing list
>>
>> [hidden email]
>>
>> https://code.ros.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-kinect
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Ros-kinect mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://code.ros.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-kinect
>>
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Re: [Ros-kinect] Power and voltage limits

Kurt Konolige
Not necessarily.  Power converters are used, and the spec for the  
Kinect is 12V, with minimum 8V, so no go.  --kk

Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 19, 2010, at 9:10 PM, Radu Bogdan Rusu <[hidden email]>  
wrote:

> I mean if the reference PrimeSense sensor (http://www.primesense.com/files/FMF_2.PDF 
> ) uses 1 USB connection, I'm sure we
> can strip down the unnecessary stuff on the Kinect (motor, usb hub,  
> etc) and make it use 1 USB connection only too, no?
>
> Cheers,
> Radu.
>
>
> On 11/19/2010 08:28 PM, Patrick Bouffard wrote:
>> Good point, although the label on the fan says it's 5V, 0.1 A -- so
>> probably not quite that much.
>>
>> Pat
>>
>> On Fri, Nov 19, 2010 at 6:02 PM, Curt  
>> Meyers<[hidden email]>  wrote:
>>> There is also a fan that could draw another watt it two if it ever  
>>> turns on.
>>>
>>> Curt
>>> On Nov 19, 2010, at 5:30 PM, Kurt  
>>> Konolige<[hidden email]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> USB power won't work, since that's 5V, and the minimum needed by the
>>> Kinect is 8V.  --kk
>>>
>>> On Fri, Nov 19, 2010 at 4:22 PM, Radu Bogdan Rusu<[hidden email]
>>> >
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Patrick,
>>>
>>> Great finds!
>>>
>>> I wonder what's the easiest way for us to get rid of the  
>>> additional power
>>> supply, and have it hooked to 1-2 USB ports
>>>
>>> only. We might need to get rid of the motor in the process. Has  
>>> anyone tried
>>> that yet?
>>>
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>>
>>> Radu.
>>>
>>>
>>> On 11/19/2010 03:02 PM, Patrick Bouffard wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi, I was looking for this info and couldn't find it anywhere on the
>>>
>>> web, so after taking some measurements myself here is what I found
>>>
>>> out:
>>>
>>> The power cable consists of two small gauge (22 AWG I think) wires,
>>>
>>> one brown and one black, plus a couple of thin rubbery filaments
>>>
>>> presumably for strain relief. The brown wire is +12V (I measured  
>>> it at
>>>
>>> 12.25) and the white is ground.
>>>
>>> On the wall-wart label the output is listed as 12 VDC, 1.08 A, and I
>>>
>>> have seen 12 W quoted for power. But what is the actual power
>>>
>>> requirement? I used a switching power supply to provide 12.25 V and
>>>
>>> used a Watt's-Up inline meter to check. Turns out while operating
>>>
>>> (this is using the ROS kinect driver, though I doubt it would make a
>>>
>>> difference with a different one) it draws around 0.32-0.35 A, or  
>>> just
>>>
>>> under 4 W. The readings didn't change appreciably when I actuated  
>>> the
>>>
>>> tilt motor for several seconds.
>>>
>>> Also of interest to me was what is the lower limit of voltage it can
>>>
>>> operate at. I found this to be approx. 8.05 V. Below that the driver
>>>
>>> would lose connection. At the other end, I tested up to 12.6 V
>>>
>>> successfully. It may be able to go higher but that's as high as I
>>>
>>> would need it to handle for my application and I don't want to risk
>>>
>>> damage.
>>>
>>> Hope this info is useful and I'm interested if anyone else has done
>>>
>>> similar tests and how the results compare.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>>
>>> Pat
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>>
>>> Ros-kinect mailing list
>>>
>>> [hidden email]
>>>
>>> https://code.ros.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-kinect
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Ros-kinect mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> https://code.ros.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-kinect
>>>
> _______________________________________________
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> [hidden email]
> https://code.ros.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-kinect
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Re: [Ros-kinect] Power and voltage limits

Kurt Konolige
In reply to this post by Bill Morris
The chips may only need 3.3V, but a power converter buffers and  
filters outside power to protect the device, and that can be spec'ed  
in many different ways.  From the experiments, it can't go below 8V.

Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 19, 2010, at 6:54 PM, Bill Morris <[hidden email]>  
wrote:

> I wonder what actually needs higher then 5Vs?
>
> The only things I can think of are
> IR Laser
> Motor
> Peltier junction for cooling the IR imager
>  http://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Microsoft-Kinect-Teardown/ 
> 4066/3#s19099
>
>
> On Fri, 2010-11-19 at 17:30 -0800, Kurt Konolige wrote:
>> USB power won't work, since that's 5V, and the minimum needed by the
>> Kinect is 8V.  --kk
>>
>> On Fri, Nov 19, 2010 at 4:22 PM, Radu Bogdan Rusu <[hidden email]
>> > wrote:
>>> Patrick,
>>>
>>> Great finds!
>>>
>>> I wonder what's the easiest way for us to get rid of the  
>>> additional power supply, and have it hooked to 1-2 USB ports
>>> only. We might need to get rid of the motor in the process. Has  
>>> anyone tried that yet?
>>>
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Radu.
>>>
>>>
>>> On 11/19/2010 03:02 PM, Patrick Bouffard wrote:
>>>> Hi, I was looking for this info and couldn't find it anywhere on  
>>>> the
>>>> web, so after taking some measurements myself here is what I found
>>>> out:
>>>>
>>>> The power cable consists of two small gauge (22 AWG I think) wires,
>>>> one brown and one black, plus a couple of thin rubbery filaments
>>>> presumably for strain relief. The brown wire is +12V (I measured  
>>>> it at
>>>> 12.25) and the white is ground.
>>>>
>>>> On the wall-wart label the output is listed as 12 VDC, 1.08 A,  
>>>> and I
>>>> have seen 12 W quoted for power. But what is the actual power
>>>> requirement? I used a switching power supply to provide 12.25 V and
>>>> used a Watt's-Up inline meter to check. Turns out while operating
>>>> (this is using the ROS kinect driver, though I doubt it would  
>>>> make a
>>>> difference with a different one) it draws around 0.32-0.35 A, or  
>>>> just
>>>> under 4 W. The readings didn't change appreciably when I actuated  
>>>> the
>>>> tilt motor for several seconds.
>>>>
>>>> Also of interest to me was what is the lower limit of voltage it  
>>>> can
>>>> operate at. I found this to be approx. 8.05 V. Below that the  
>>>> driver
>>>> would lose connection. At the other end, I tested up to 12.6 V
>>>> successfully. It may be able to go higher but that's as high as I
>>>> would need it to handle for my application and I don't want to risk
>>>> damage.
>>>>
>>>> Hope this info is useful and I'm interested if anyone else has done
>>>> similar tests and how the results compare.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Pat
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Re: [Ros-kinect] Power and voltage limits

Bill Morris
In reply to this post by Kurt Konolige
On Fri, 2010-11-19 at 22:49 -0800, Kurt Konolige wrote:
> Not necessarily.  Power converters are used, and the spec for the  
> Kinect is 12V, with minimum 8V, so no go.  --kk

How about splitting the input current over two usb ports, then raise the
voltage from 5V to 12V with a boost converter?

The only problem I can think of with this approach is that you are not
"supposed" to stack switching power supplies due to harmonics in the
pulse modulation. I have not tried it though so I don't know how it
works out in practice.

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